tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post7559899975641172494..comments2023-10-18T09:12:17.911-07:00Comments on Rick R. Reed Reality: CLEAN READS, A Publishing House that Deems #LGBT "Dirty"Rick R. Reedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06200655067546158333noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-82713737363556549582016-04-19T06:14:57.452-07:002016-04-19T06:14:57.452-07:00I'm going to close comments on this thread now...I'm going to close comments on this thread now. Not because I am against the free exchange of ideas, but because there's a lot of the same things being said over and over and because it does seem to be stirring up hate, on both sides of the issue, and that was never my intention. <br /><br />I was going to go in refute some of the points made, but I think that's already been done, and probably said more eloquently than I could.<br /><br />I'd like to thank ALL of you for taking the time to write and weigh in on things. Bonus points if you were diplomatic about it. <br /><br />One thing I do want to say is to those who said I was out to "bash" Clean Reads and that I knew nothing, or little, about them.<br /><br />First, my intention was never to bash, but to question and call out a policy I feel is discriminatory and possibly hurtful. If that's bashing, then no one should ever speak up about what they feel are perceived injustices.<br /><br />Second, I did research Clean Reads. First, because when I saw them at the RT convention, I wondered about them and was curious. I was not looking for anything to be offended by. I read their entire website, Googled them, and I hope I kept an open mind. Before I got to their submissions page, I thought--and still think--they have a beautiful, streamlined and easy-to-understand website, their covers are gorgeous, their blurbs are intriguing, and they have a roster of inspired and dedicated authors. My post grew NOT out of ignorance, but out of the research I did on Clean Reads. When I saw their submissions page is when I felt I needed to speak up. Because I try and come from a place of love and inclusiveness, of oneness, and it's my hope to see others embrace that. When we all do, the world will be a better place--that's my heartfelt belief.<br /><br />That said, I'd like to close with a request that Clean Reads open their minds and hearts to diversity, to celebrate people of all types in their stories. Give love and openness a chance. You can still have all your prohibitions against profanity, on-page sex and so on, but simply allow that love is love...and see what happens. I suspect you might find that there's room for everyone at the table, where love and acceptance are concerned.<br /><br />Thank you all! If you're a writer, I wish you well and that you find contentment and joy in your work. If you're a reader, my hope is that you find stories that make you think, that bring you joy, and that open your eyes to the wide and beautiful spectrum of people and places out there.Rick R. Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06200655067546158333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-27687213910537131502016-04-19T05:36:20.815-07:002016-04-19T05:36:20.815-07:00"To reiterate this false message you're s..."To reiterate this false message you're spreading: characters considered part of the LGBTQA+ community ARE indeed allowed in all stories, just no LGBTQA+ themed stories. No LGBTQA+ main characters." <br /><br />So what you're saying is it's OK to use as as props as long as it's not actually our stories? Because I have a feeling that when you say LGBT themes you don't mean HIV and Stonewall but just us living and falling in love. Tiferethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15583418004585625175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-74332682379814685852016-04-19T05:13:45.586-07:002016-04-19T05:13:45.586-07:00No one here is judging the authors. We're all ...No one here is judging the authors. We're all saying that calling a company Clean Reads, listing all the (pretty reasonable) things it doesn't allow, and then excluding a whole population of people comes across to us.AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-76709362721059495342016-04-19T05:10:11.512-07:002016-04-19T05:10:11.512-07:00Krista, "dirty" was implied by saying &q...Krista, "dirty" was implied by saying "homosexual characters" are not in the "clean" category. The publisher is called Clean Reads, they list all the reasons that title applies, and then the only category of people excluded are LGBT people. Just like the Bible you say is so clear, but which relies on human interpretation, this is a reasonable inference from the context.<br /><br />As for what's allowed in school, I have no problem with my Christian kids listening to their classmates talk about their religions because Christians are still in the majority. Most people, even non-Christians, know what Christianity is all about. Lots and lots of people still don't even know what Judaism is all about, let alone Islam or Sikhism or Buddhism or any other religion. I don't have a lot of patience for my fellow Christians inventing persecution where none exists.AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-9037009950010219352016-04-19T05:02:05.417-07:002016-04-19T05:02:05.417-07:00I'm wondering if the alleged lesbian character...I'm wondering if the alleged lesbian character is a main character. Because I suspect that an actual lesbian romance wouldn't fly with this publisher.AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-26495388943347610732016-04-19T04:58:40.293-07:002016-04-19T04:58:40.293-07:00Krista, unless you have a list, I have a tendency ...Krista, unless you have a list, I have a tendency not to believe there's a vast number of publishers refusing Christian material. And a blogger not wanting to read/review it is entirely different from a publisher not publishing it. No one here is saying bloggers should all *read* gay content. I write a lot of Christian characters/content even though I write LGBT fiction, and yeah, I have trouble getting reviews sometimes. But that's their right not to read it!<br /><br />A lot of us grew up in families or attended churches which made us feel dirty and unlovable. Is it any wonder that many of us rejected "Christian" values and feel re-traumatized by reading religious books? I can't think of a single instance in which a Christian would suffer PTSD symptoms from reading about gay people, but I can certainly give examples of LGBT people being triggered by religious content.AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-33262672462192235232016-04-19T04:47:41.573-07:002016-04-19T04:47:41.573-07:00Ugh, really? My 12yo read those books last year (h...Ugh, really? My 12yo read those books last year (he was 11) because he's a theater kid and wanted a story about a boy on stage. He loved them, and I saw nothing in there I felt he couldn't handle or wouldn't be appropriate. The kiss was probably the least "mature" content, LOL.AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-12319518766247086152016-04-19T04:45:14.350-07:002016-04-19T04:45:14.350-07:00By wishing people well in finding a publishing hom...By wishing people well in finding a publishing home, you're assuming a lot that hasn't been said--chiefly that they aren't already with a publishing house. The people commenting here that they think this is exclusionary are not bitter people who can't get published (or self-publish).AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-91902231253995623202016-04-19T04:42:30.596-07:002016-04-19T04:42:30.596-07:00Krista, would you mind supplying a list of publish...Krista, would you mind supplying a list of publishers who won't publish anything with religious material? Specifically who won't publish Christian content? Also, please clarify--are they not publishing any religious content at all, are they disallowing religious characters, are they refusing religious non-fiction, are they large publishers directing people to a specific imprint (I believe this is what the big companies do), or are they only excluding specific religions?AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-89883900519246968022016-04-19T04:38:35.944-07:002016-04-19T04:38:35.944-07:00Krista, no, "His Word" (um...leaving asi...Krista, no, "His Word" (um...leaving aside the fact that the Word of God is Jesus, not the Bible) is NOT "clear about homosexuality."<br /><br />There are exactly 6 passages which could be interpreted as being about "homosexuality." The Bible is too old a book to have used the word, so people have had to determine the meanings of the text. Only one of those outright says same-sex sex is wrong, and even that only refers to men--nothing about women in there, so again, people are inferring. Paul literally made up words for what he was talking about. He could have meant the practice in ancient Greece of older men having sex with boys, or he could have meant temple prostitution. Either way, once again, it only refers to men and/or boys, and it's up to the interpretation of clergy. The one in Romans doesn't necessarily refer to ALL same-sex love, only lust and adultery, and the meaning is murky there, too. And the only other passage is about Sodom and Gomorrah, and that was about hostility toward strangers. Jesus himself said nothing at all about it, which you'd think he would have if it were so important. He did have an awful lot to say about money and how people treat the poor and disabled, though. Funny how that doesn't come up nearly as often.<br /><br />I could easily supply links to Bible scholars who have spent a lot of time studying this stuff, but I don't have all day. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm pretty much the last person anyone wants to use the phrase "the Bible is clear" on. I'm a child of one Jewish and one Christian parent, I'm a Christian myself (and ethnically Jewish), and I've spent my whole life learning both traditions and studying the Bible. I could do this all day if I didn't have to work.AM Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04209724829228883552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-86587224755343544652016-04-19T04:15:09.188-07:002016-04-19T04:15:09.188-07:00Folks:
I don't know the publishing house or t...Folks: <br />I don't know the publishing house or the people behind it or the authors who submit to them. All I can go by is what they have in black and white on their submissions page. Words matter. <br /><br />Take a moment and exchange the word homosexual for an other minority group. I wonder how many writers would submit or defend having no vegetarians characters, no Jewish characters, no red heads, or pick a skin color. It's easy to see how that's a no brainer... adding an orientation, gender, age, etc promotes a negative atmosphere.<br />Any publisher is well within their right to specialize in a genre or have no sex/cursing but when you call out a specific group to say NO we don't want THESE type of characters: it hurts. (We're losing are kids due to these ideas)<br /><br />If you don't think these ideas seeps into a societal mindset you'd be wrong. Even without quoting you studies ask yourself why Coke spends millions on advertising? Because it works. Words matter. <br /><br />If the publishing house isn't promoting negative ideas then an adjustment in the wording would be in order. An apology is a wonder and healing thing. (Even if I don't hurt someone on purpose but do indeed hurt them I apologize.)<br /><br />Again, I will continue to write with love. LGBTQIA+ writers with every page you open hearts and minds... continue to do so. <br /><br />Many hugs, Z. AlloraZ. Allorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10753512764696885052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-8991831133870225712016-04-19T02:44:36.920-07:002016-04-19T02:44:36.920-07:00I agree with anonymous. When I first read your pos...I agree with anonymous. When I first read your post, I was upset as I'm a Clean Reads author and straight supporter of the LGBT community. I honestly hadn't even noticed that part in the submissions page. Sure, your blog post was pretty straightforward and came from a feeling of hurt and exclusion you got out of it. We all get different things out of things. But the comments that followed have made me sick to the stomach. For one, I don't think it was ever their intention to exclude anyone or make anyone feel dirty. In fact, the LGBT part was put with fan fiction and poetry, not with the "no violence and sex" part. But it seems that everyone here is intent to believe the absolute worst and lambaste a publishing company that's really a great one because they can. Humans can be so violent with their words, it's kind of scary. One of my Clean Reads books has a homosexual character in (who's put in a good light) and he was not edited out at all. I'm more appalled by the vitriolic response to your post than anything else. Please be aware that it would never be the publisher's heart to hurt and discriminate against anyone - I just know she's not like that but is a wonderful, kind and generous person who treats her authors like gold. I write romance with no sex and I write other romance with lots of sex. I'm grateful that Clean Reads publishes my sweet romances and am not offended at all that they don't publish my romances with sex scenes in. That's their choice and they were my debut publisher so I'm truly grateful to how they've helped me and shown me so much about writing. I don't write LGBT romances, not because I have anything against them - I've read a couple of lovely ones - but it's because I really wouldn't do them justice. Yes, I understand where you are coming from but I do think that the spirit in which this whole blog post has turned has gone bad. And possibly, it could have been worded in a more questioning and less attacking way. Maybe you don't realise how much angst you may have caused people even though your intentions were only good to defend the LGBT community. Wishing you the best. And please try to believe the best of people - that the intention was to never hurt, judge or exclude people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-35573002135043995242016-04-19T02:17:25.205-07:002016-04-19T02:17:25.205-07:00"To reiterate this false message you're s..."To reiterate this false message you're spreading: characters considered part of the LGBTQA+ community ARE indeed allowed in all stories, just no LGBTQA+ themed stories. No LGBTQA+ main characters." <br /><br />So what you're saying is it's OK to use as as props as long as it's not actually our stories? Because I have a feeling that when you say LGBT themes you don't mean HIV and Stonewall but just us living and falling in love. Tiferethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15583418004585625175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-46741996588667507702016-04-19T01:28:28.107-07:002016-04-19T01:28:28.107-07:00THIS!!!! Perfect. THIS!!!! Perfect. Music City Romance Writershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08743570081007309214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-53449798731615693292016-04-19T00:27:24.669-07:002016-04-19T00:27:24.669-07:00I agree totally. But she has made her small mind u...I agree totally. But she has made her small mind up. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01141970807950398413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-11015889199744196802016-04-19T00:26:14.759-07:002016-04-19T00:26:14.759-07:00I agree totally. But she has made her small mind u...I agree totally. But she has made her small mind up. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01141970807950398413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-26414173956760776942016-04-18T23:50:54.564-07:002016-04-18T23:50:54.564-07:00*analogies. Close, autocorrect, but no cigar.*analogies. Close, autocorrect, but no cigar.Mistyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11436497955518156688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-38355525507705709372016-04-18T23:48:50.212-07:002016-04-18T23:48:50.212-07:00Krista, since you seem to want to make this about ...Krista, since you seem to want to make this about gay books vs. religious books (the two are not mutually exclusive, by the way), but keep using REALLY faulty analogues to do so, thought I'd help you out: this scenario isn't analogous to a publisher accepting fantasy but not religious books; this is analogous to a SPECIFICALLY religious publisher accepting stories from all other religions, but not Christianiy (or Judaism, etc, etc). This is a publisher for romances accepting romantic stories about (presumably*) all types of people, so long as they're chaste, with the single exception of gay people.<br />Publishers of course have the right to fill a niche market -- but they don't get to dictate reader and author reactions to their chosen niche, or their hamhanded approach.<br /><br />*though I would venture to guess they're majority white and Christian.Mistyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11436497955518156688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-75458284340354145252016-04-18T23:24:07.690-07:002016-04-18T23:24:07.690-07:00Ugh. Honestly, everyone's behaviour over this ...Ugh. Honestly, everyone's behaviour over this is half the reason why I, a bisexual woman, stay away from the very community that's supposed to be for me (that and how fond said community is to erase my sexuality). What an utter disgraceful way to act.<br /><br />So what if they don't accept books with a LGBTQA+ theme? Maybe they don't feel as if they've the capacity to handle what can be a sensitive and triggering area of fiction. I'm not saying that's the reason, but there are more logical ways to consider why a business takes such a stance that doesn't pertain to "zomg! they must hate gayz!" They don't. I've read several of their books that have gay secondary characters. What's more, those characters are treated fairly, without discrimination or judgement.<br /><br />You have your publisher, Rick. I'm sure you're very happy with them and how they cater to your needs (so I do wonder your motive behind bashing on another company). I'm also willing to bet you never asked for any sort of clarification as to what that "no homosexuals" policy meant, like I did.<br /><br />To reiterate this false message you're spreading: characters considered part of the LGBTQA+ community ARE indeed allowed in all stories, just no LGBTQA+ themed stories. No LGBTQA+ main characters. Maybe they could've worded it better. But, in my opinion, you seem the type who wouldn't be satisfied unless they were exactly like what you want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-2941387040139206082016-04-18T22:47:15.565-07:002016-04-18T22:47:15.565-07:00Was a fan of Rick R reeds, but he just lost a read...Was a fan of Rick R reeds, but he just lost a reader, No author should be bashing on a company, Just my opinion... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-39808313703524440352016-04-18T22:44:08.620-07:002016-04-18T22:44:08.620-07:00You guys are missing it. CR never said you were di...You guys are missing it. CR never said you were dirty. If you don't like their preferences, then you don't. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want and it is wrong to bash them for it. My daughter, a Christian, was not allowed to sing a song about God in elementary school for the talent show unless it was solely in the patriotic sense. My daughter was enrolled in her home school and was told she could not talk about God, who is Love. yet other little kids were performing religious rituals/dances, allowed to talk about their Muslim beliefs. Now that is "hurtful" and "discriminatory". And still I don't see non-Christians crying out about this wrongful treatment. Krista's Reflectionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161778661734776424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-74210873956115723812016-04-18T22:38:04.955-07:002016-04-18T22:38:04.955-07:00I'll tell you what? Why don't you comprehe...I'll tell you what? Why don't you comprehend "Don't judge a book by its cover?" It goes along with "Don't judge a company or its authors by the name of their logo," and maybe we'll talk then... Thanks.. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-22001125899779823682016-04-18T22:37:14.138-07:002016-04-18T22:37:14.138-07:00Rick, Wade, I have personally come across NUMEROUS...Rick, Wade, I have personally come across NUMEROUS bloggers and publishing house who REFUSE to accept Christian material. I think this is far worse because a Christian believes in God. Why is that "bad"? And why are you guys not getting upset about that? That sounds like a double standard. But I personally don't care. They don't want my stuff, that don't have to want my stuff. How dare I go and bash them and call them bigots and haters because of it? Krista's Reflectionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161778661734776424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-18301605906454018032016-04-18T22:31:38.539-07:002016-04-18T22:31:38.539-07:00Thank you, Krista, for missing every single point,...Thank you, Krista, for missing every single point, and then unwittingly--and kind of hysterically--driving home ours. And for being so very Christian while you did so.Carole Cummingshttp://www.carolecummings.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7021364414249897766.post-57835140424046550792016-04-18T22:26:57.160-07:002016-04-18T22:26:57.160-07:00Of course, all this hate-bashing on CR but none on...Of course, all this hate-bashing on CR but none on those publishers who refuse to publish "religious" material. Where's that argument? Non-existent, because it's their right. Get over it.Krista's Reflectionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161778661734776424noreply@blogger.com